I wonder how much of this is about cracking down on Newpipe, ReVanced and other unauthorized clients.
My suspicion is that it’s because the playstore has become so awful that google is seeing the effect in their earnings. If customers get burned one too many times on a crappy app with fake reviews, then they’re not going to spend any money on anything else in the store anymore. So now Google tries to sabotage the possible alternatives, rather than try to fix their product.
I’m curious, how does this affect EU users? Isn’t this against our rules?
It’s trying to squeeze through a legal loophole. They have to allow apps from outside their appstore. But law does not explicitly say they can’t require them to be verified by google first.
Ordered a Jolla phone with their SailfishOs (linux based). Time to leave android
Would these work outside of Europe, say in the U.S. or Canada?
Possibly at a base level, but not well. Most US carriers have a white list of devices certified to use their networks.
They will work outside of Europe according to their website. Also it says on the website:
The initial sales markets are EU, UK, Switzerland and Norway. Entering other markets, such as the U.S. and Canada are to be decided due course based on potential interest from the areas.
We will design the cellular band configuration to enable potential future markets, including major U.S. carrier networks.
does VoLTE work? Basically all carriers in the us use this and we knocked down all of the old tech towers. My understanding is the EU still has all the old towers up for just voice calls and don’t need VoLTE to work.
Quick web search suggests it is a “beta” feature at best currently :(
In the EU VoLTE seems to work with most providers but there are issues with some providers. I think the sailfish OS forum has a compatibility list. Not sure how the situation is in the US as, this does depend on providers.
Ironically, this may be a catalyst for better Linux Phones
It took 6-10 years for Android to take shape.
On Linux, every app has full access to your browsing history, clipboard (passwords), photos with geo-tags, music, list of other installed apps, contacts. Unrestricted battery and network access – it’s a tracking paradise. And all it takes is one supply chain attack on npm install with typical 4000K dependency packages
Thats why flatpaks exist for those kind of apps and sandboxes are very much possible on linux (even if not widely used for normal programs)
Linux phones have already been around for many years. Right now we’re very close to Linux phones that are usable on a daily basis. Not as close to decent Linux phones, of course, but with the right (not at all unrealistic) resources it could be completely within reach in a year or two.
Also, Flatpaks exist and work pretty much just like Android apps.
Just in time for them to be practically outlawed, if my gut can be trusted. I hope not.
Dark times ahead…
You cannot sideload on Linux, not unless you’re some sort of mutant freak who can reverse engineer C code.
Yeah we can do that. What do you think side loading means? Changing the name of an install doesn’t make it different. Back in my day we called it installing a program. Things changed. Then we called it downloading an app. Things changed. Now if it’s not approved it’s called side loading? Blow it out your ass.
Its a program. Take the training wheels off of the Internet. I grew up when this was a cautionary tale. But up and deal with the consequences or get out.
“Side load” is just language used to mean installing software outside of the official approved vendor store. Linux lets you install software from wherever you want, you’re not locked into a vendor or manufacturer ecosystem. So in a sense all you do is “sideload,” it’s just normal non-corporate OSes call that “installation”
Indeed, it’s just called installing there
I guess you are joking? And mean “side-loading” as in injecting custom code via LD_PRELOAD and not the strange definition phone makers use for describing ‘installing an app’.
How would reverse engineering c code be side loading? You can get .deb, .rpm etc and install them on your distro as long as it supports the format, regardless of who developed the app, and honestly even if it doesn’t support the format there are ways. You can even compile the source code of more Linux apps, at least the FOSS ones, with just a few commands. If anything it would be more realistic to say you can ONLY side load on Linux
Yeah the people who are against linux these days and claim its more difficult im real suspicious about.
Funny how they are just blatantly false fear mongering. Is it Slopya Nadellas alternate account? MICROSLOP! (Hopefully that scared them).
I only hope that manufacturers respond to this kind of behavior. Motorola deserves full credit for adopting grapheneos. I think some of the Chinese manufacturers have their own forks too?
How? The TOS for selling phones with Google services is that they can’t sell phones with an Android fork outside China. Even the ODM is affected, meaning nobody will ever think this.
I saw in Italy that selling phones without Google services is a death sentence, Huawei crashed from 25% marketshare to 0% basically overnight even if they already had a “plan B” where they made “new” phones using the same specs and codename but in a different shape to buy time and when they launched their fork they had a 1:1 replacement for GMS called HMS so devs could still embed Google Maps and it will be replaced automatically by petal maps. Devs could upload their apps with a single click and users could install Google services unofficially installing an “unofficial 😉” APK with all the right signatures. Nobody did that. One click = too much work = nobody touches the default
At least they can leave the bootloader unlockable for us, but fucking Xiaomi really needs to make 200 new fucking models a year with lots of proprietary bits and abandons them after 6 months so it’s impossibile for the community to make a well supported custom ROM. They copy everything from apple except the part where they should only make 4 fucking models a year. Basic, standard, pro and pro max. Don’t need a “Xiaomi Redmi note 29T pro 5G wideband edition”
To be clear, GrapheneOS or any other fork of Android is not a long term viable solution as it is still dependent on Google. We need to break the Google/Apple duopoly. And of course, Linux phones are an option but people need top get behind it.
The way google is behaving is making a hard fork more likely.
Its not a solution, but it buys time - Linux phones will take some time.
I’m guessing that features like relockable bootloaders & open source drivers help both.
Thank god I run /e/OS. I just hope this won’t hurt the popularity of sideloaded apps too much, as this might mean FOSS apps becoming stagnant because they don’t receive as much attention anymore
For /e/os have adblocker? How’s the learning curve?
They have a tool called advanced privacy that tries to block in-app trackers. Adblocking is more a browser thing but the preinstalled browser does have it (although I use uBlock on Fennec, a Firefox fork). Theres really not that much to learn most things just work. The only thing you need to know is that some apps that rely heavily on Google Play Services might not work properly. For example Google Maps does not work (but the Webapp does or you can just use CoMaps or Osmand, something OpenStreetMap based). Generally I found the switch to be pretty easy. My banking apps all worked fine but I’ve heard some people have trouble with theirs. The App Launcher is kind of iOS inspired but I didn’t like it that much so I just swapped it out with Kvaerisito.
Hard agree. If I’m forces to only run barely used FOSS apps, then I might as well buy a linux phone.
I also use /e/OS. I’m not too versed in these things, but if I understand correctly from your comment, this decision by Google won’t directly affect us right? Only in the sense that it discourages developers to not support FOSS apps?
Yeah, it won’t affect you really. /e/OS is based off of AOSP and Lineage and the devs can just choose to keep it like it currently is. I haven’t really found a source for it but since theres like no official play store, and the lineage community would just patch out whatever google introduces (If this even reaches AOSP) I don’t think this will ever bother neither of us. The real threat comes from FOSS projects dying bc most Android users still use proprietary android
Alright, thanks for the confirmation! Yeah, hopefully this won’t affect FOSS projects too much…
This is my #1 concern with this bullshit.
I can’t see this move by Google as anything but a power grab to reduce competition. If someone wants to bear the “risk” of installing software that hasn’t been vetted by Google, why does Google insist on being a nanny that makes it more difficult? Money, that’s why. Google is acting to try to enforce its monopoly over android apps. GrapheneOS, which is more secure than android, doesn’t make a fuss over this issue. No, this is only an issue with the company that hoovers up all your data in breach of your privacy.
I can’t see this move by Google as anything but a power grab to reduce competition
It locks down phones. Without sideloading the elite controls which messenger services can be used. They most likely can also secretly update apps and replace them with versions that leak the encryption keys.
With Google not being threatened by a competitor this essentially tells us that the elite is serious about moving to fascism.
It’s frightening to me that the comment has 85 upvotes but no reply that points this out.
Nobody (for now),/as it can be easil, bypassed
There are many very good reasons to host apps outside the Play Store.
You won’t have to upload apks to the Play Store.
Nonsense story.
Saving you a click:
Read the fine print carefully, and Google’s new app-loading processes aren’t as invasive as they could have been. For many users, nothing will change. Even for users exploring apps outside Google’s walled garden, the process is usually a one-time setup with a few simple steps and a short wait, keeping the experience virtually the same as it is today.
We have phone manufacturers who offer unlocked boot loaders as a feature, but require two weeks or more of device ownership, registration using personally identifiable info for an online account, and many times don’t even allow you to relock the boot loader. Despite all this hassle, these devices still get updated third party OS’s with Lineage and eOS.
Anyone who was publishing to FDroid already is not going to
be annoyedgive up over the 24 hour scare screen for users. The most inconvenient aspect is that they can’t use the same signing keys as a Google Play release, which they should never have been doing anyway. Its absurd that developers were using the same signing keys across all different distribution methods in the first place.EDIT: Phrasing. Everything about Android is annoying.
can’t use the same signing keys as a Google Play release, which they should never have been doing anyway
Why? Same author, same signature.
If I paid a thousand bucks for a flagship phone, I should be able to install whatever the fuck I want. Full stop.
If I paid twenty bucks for a secondhand basic bitch ass phone I should be able to install whatever the fuck I want. Double full stop.
What’s your argument? I can’t do whatever I want with my device? Fuck off.
Cool, its never been like that and you kept buying Android devices anyway?
I’d like that too. In what way does “things should be better” counter argument “this update changes nothing”? EDIT: No really, if you have either of these hypothetical phones, what can you not install after this update that you could before? I got shit I want to install but cant because of restrictions to root made in Android 4+. Haven’t been to able to run a OS outside of Android since the Pixel 3 era. Am I supposed to reach peak anger over Android being a shitty platform with every change they make? Is that useful or helpful to you? Was I supposed to start my comment with an entire history of Googles anti user behavior so you understand I am not defending them?
I’m gonna stop commenting honestly. Y’all just wanna be mad. Tried to dispel a rage bait article and ended up wasting my time. You already knew what the article was about and wanted to get mad again anyway. There is more useful stuff to do than get mad at someone who agrees with everything you said. Please work on your reading comprehension.
Anyone who was publishing to FDroid already is not going to be annoyed about the 24 hour scare screen for users.
Bullshit.
It’s hard enough to get people to step outside the Play Store ecosystem. Any additional friction will greatly reduce the number who do, and the combination of a reboot and a long waiting period is a lot of friction for the average person.
24h now, a week next year, etc. Not ling to go before is fully enclosed.
See what happened to Xiaomi bootloader unlocking for an example of this in action.
I specifically said publishing. Publishers/developers are not the average person. And the people installing third party apps on the user hostile platform of Android are also already dealing with friction. I’m more concerned with developers giving up because they need to do unacceptable ID verification, or are outright banned from development APKs entirely, than users giving up because “this takes too long…” Frankly, you ignoring the context of my post comes off as you just wanting to be angry.
I read the headline, I read the article, and I answered the rage bait presented in said headline. The impact of this change is “fuck all and nothing”. I’ve got plenty of web sites that are inaccessible without getting around geoblocks with a VPN. Been in communities shut down by corporate media throwing money and legal teams at denying their right to exist. Feels like everyone wants a federal ID to use an online service these days, and Google wont be that far behind doing their own version of it. But this update changes literally nothing for power users right now. Sorry that I’m not as upset because the slippery slope isn’t as steep as everyone else says it is.
If you really want something worth being mad at, get mad at the hardware manufactures who release hardware with proprietary firmware that only runs on Android. Wouldn’t be having this discussion at all if users were allowed to run completely custom software from boot. If there was an open standard for a battery powered device that could run a modern compliant web browser, and take SMS/phone calls, we could tell Google to kick sand. Instead we have an ocean of built-to-expire mobile phones that end up being “obsolete” within 2 years. I’m pretty sure the mobile carriers/ISPs have more control over what hardware is allowed to exist though. I should probably do more research on that.
The APK installation process is already more inconvenient than it should be, and now it will be getting even worse. There should be no difference in installing an APK via Google Play versus any other method.
The fact that the process will still have a ‘security’ warning each and every time after the 24 hour wait period shows that even for “advanced users” they want to make it as inconvenient as possible while claiming to still be keeping Android open.
The APK installation process is already more inconvenient than it should be,
You what. All you have to do is download the apk and then run it on the phone. HTF could it be any easier ?
Every APK installation from outside of the Play Store gives an installation warning. It’s unnecessary and deliberately trying to make such installations seem less secure in comparison.
A beneficial warning would highlight the many privacy risks in installing apps from the Play Store instead of privacy-respecting alternatives from F-Droid.
Man the custom ROM life just reinforces my idea that stock Android is a fucking nightmare. I use Graphene and it just asks, “Hey, do you want to install this app (+ without network access?” Yes? Neat, it’s on your phone now. The literal only roadblock is enabling installs from non-appstore apps like browser or files, which makes sense. No fear mongering, no developer mode, no wait a day to do it.
I agree. I do not want to come off as defending Google here. Things will get worse as they always have, and the sooner we got off Googles corporate platform, the better. Google has no business forcing themselves as a “trusted central source”, especially with all the evidence showing that the Play Store is a more common and successful attack vector than third party apks. Third party offerings should be as easy and accessible as Googles.
I guess I’m just really annoyed at the public response because it continues to be doom and gloom; as if open source app development was going to die overnight due to this one change. I’m pointing out that there is already more restrictive things on the Android platform, and big projects still exist despite that. As hostile as a development platform Android has been, a new one time, 24 hour scare screen is likely not going to be the final straw for developers.
I agree, this is not going to be the final straw for most developers, but I, and others, will never use android again after this.
I moved away from Microsoft because I don’t need a digital overseer policing my usage of the system. Android is moving in that direction, and so will I move, towards freedom.
