I don’t think I disagree with the point you’re making on misogyny, but I’m having a hard time following the argument. To my understanding, the original claim about “bodies existing for sexual gratification” frequently applies to men in male-male content as well (including as being viewed by women, to complete the mirror image). So the thing that makes it misogyny, as opposed to general misanthropy or class exploitation, is that female-female content is included under the “straight” label while male-male isn’t?
Taking those stats on video viewership though would seem to support a claim that a site is assuming a male viewer, and using the “straight” label as applied to the (male) viewer would select any content containing their desired sex (women), both male-female and female-female. That assumption of male viewer and self-applied label would also support seeing male-male but not female-female under the “gay” label (though with male-female missing, perhaps explained with something about self-insert or observer vs recipient, but maybe that goes toward your point). Having a misleading UI and making not-unprobable assumptions about viewers feels less problematic though?
I’m trying not to take a position that would vilify pornography or those involved by default, but maybe I’m holding onto that too strongly or letting too much of my own bias in. Am I missing the point entirely or just seeing it the wrong way?
No you pretty much laid it out in you comment, I think it tracks.
Having a misleading UI and making not-unprobable assumptions about viewers feels less problematic though?
I don’t think I particularly matters where the situation lands on the “scale of problematicness”, but youre correct it does exist and it isn’t at the far end of the spectrum. Nonetheless, it is a symptom of a greater social issue (patriarchy), and it warrants discussion and criticism.
The porn industry is made up of corporations, which will tend to reproduce the same heiarchies that exist in society, since that’s what’s most profitable. It isn’t inherently problematic to objectify people in a sexual context, however it isn’t applied equally, and is reproduced in the user controls on most porn sites.
They just assume everyone is a straight male or a gay male, so the choice that gets presented is “gay stuff” or “everything else”. This is reflected in user stats, but it is also going to be self fulfilling. It would make more sense to be able to select one or more options of the broad “straight/gay/les/other” if pornhub existed in a relatively equal society. I don’t expect them to do this, but I do expect my online community to be able to discuss it and how it both reflects and reproduces harmful social constructs.
Idk if that clarifies anything, but I think you and I are in the same ballpark?
I don’t think I disagree with the point you’re making on misogyny, but I’m having a hard time following the argument. To my understanding, the original claim about “bodies existing for sexual gratification” frequently applies to men in male-male content as well (including as being viewed by women, to complete the mirror image). So the thing that makes it misogyny, as opposed to general misanthropy or class exploitation, is that female-female content is included under the “straight” label while male-male isn’t?
Taking those stats on video viewership though would seem to support a claim that a site is assuming a male viewer, and using the “straight” label as applied to the (male) viewer would select any content containing their desired sex (women), both male-female and female-female. That assumption of male viewer and self-applied label would also support seeing male-male but not female-female under the “gay” label (though with male-female missing, perhaps explained with something about self-insert or observer vs recipient, but maybe that goes toward your point). Having a misleading UI and making not-unprobable assumptions about viewers feels less problematic though?
I’m trying not to take a position that would vilify pornography or those involved by default, but maybe I’m holding onto that too strongly or letting too much of my own bias in. Am I missing the point entirely or just seeing it the wrong way?
No you pretty much laid it out in you comment, I think it tracks.
I don’t think I particularly matters where the situation lands on the “scale of problematicness”, but youre correct it does exist and it isn’t at the far end of the spectrum. Nonetheless, it is a symptom of a greater social issue (patriarchy), and it warrants discussion and criticism.
The porn industry is made up of corporations, which will tend to reproduce the same heiarchies that exist in society, since that’s what’s most profitable. It isn’t inherently problematic to objectify people in a sexual context, however it isn’t applied equally, and is reproduced in the user controls on most porn sites.
They just assume everyone is a straight male or a gay male, so the choice that gets presented is “gay stuff” or “everything else”. This is reflected in user stats, but it is also going to be self fulfilling. It would make more sense to be able to select one or more options of the broad “straight/gay/les/other” if pornhub existed in a relatively equal society. I don’t expect them to do this, but I do expect my online community to be able to discuss it and how it both reflects and reproduces harmful social constructs.
Idk if that clarifies anything, but I think you and I are in the same ballpark?