British food is unironically great, and the stereotype is based on experiences during WW2 rationing. It’s made funnier that the people who say it comes from a country where people spray cheese from a can…
There’s so many good pies, pastries, puddings, roast dinners, breakfasts, etc that are very good. British-Indian food is often excellent. Even a basic dish like macaroni cheese can be lovely if you make it right.
To be honest unless you include northern France, I’d argue nowhere in northern Europe has better food.
British food is unironically great, and the stereotype is based on experiences during WW2 rationing
I think this overstates things. A substantial number of countries have their modern culinary culture defined in the post-war decades, though.
Japanese culinary identity came together after World War II, and many of the dishes and traditions defining their cuisine are recently invented or have evolved considerably during the post-war period: the popularization and evolution of ramen, katsu, Japanese curry, yakitori, etc. Even ancient traditions like sushi and Modern Japanese food draws a lot of influence from classic pre-war cuisine, but the food itself is very different from what was eaten before the war.
Even French cuisine underwent a revolution with nouvelle cuisine, heavily influenced by Japanese kaiseki traditions. Before the 20th century, French cuisine was about heavy sauces covering rich, slow-cooked foods (see for example the duck press and how that was used), and it took a few waves of new chefs pushing back against the orthodoxy to emphasize lighter, fresher ingredients. The most notable wave happened in the 1960’s, when Paul Bocuse and others brought in small, lighter courses as the pinnacle of fine dining.
Korean, Italian (both northern and southern), and American culinary traditions changed pretty significantly in the second half of the 20th century, as well, through changes in food supply chains, political or economic changes, etc. And that’s true of a lot of places.
Britain’s inability to shake off an 80-year-old culinary reputation comes in large part from simply failing to keep up with other more food-centered cultures that continually reinvent themselves and build on that classic foundation. Some of the criticism is unfair, of course, but it’s not enough to point at how things were 100 years ago as if that has bearing on what is experienced today.
The only reason Britain still has that reputation is because Americans repeat it mindlessly in media that the whole world consumes.
Like the teeth thing. In the 2000s, the UK alongside Germany had the joint healthiest teeth in the world (although now they’ve fallen to 8th after the Scandinavian countries upped their game). Did it stop the “Brits have bad teeth” gag in US media? No.
The US, for whatever reason, has been engaged in a cultural pissing match with the UK for a long time.
I think that’s true about us missing out on those post-war culinary revolutions due to rationing still being in place for a while, and food was pretty dire still in the 70s and 80s. In the 90s celebrity chefs with TV shows really started to revitalise food culture in the UK — there’s a reason Gordon Ramsey and Jamie Oliver among others are pretty well known — but by then instead of reinventing British cuisine it became about adopting recipes from everywhere. The range of ingredients you could get in supermarkets expanded hugely and became more cosmopolitan, and now you were more likely to be entertaining guests with a tagine or churrasco than steak and kidney pie.
Full English is still better than all of that though.
due to rationing still being in place for a while, and food was pretty dire still in the 70s and 80s.
That was definitely true of Japan, too, where ramen was a poverty food popularized out of necessity, that then became a foundation for innovation up the value chain.
Same with Korea, where American occupation (and a whole history of foreign conquest and occupation) made for interesting combinations of Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and American ingredients. Now Spam is probably bigger in Asia and the Pacific Islands than it ever was in America.
Same with many American food traditions being rooted in the slave trade (see West African food culture being remixed with new world ingredients and exported right back to the Americas in what would become southern U.S. and Caribbean food).
And of course there’s the broader discussion between the interplay between fine dining, casual dining, home cooking, industrial/mass production of prepared/processed foods, etc., that often creates its own foodways.
I’m biased in that I think the cultural mixing in the Americas makes for better food innovation, where so many American classics are some sort of mix of German, Italian, Mexican (which is itself a mix of indigenous and Spanish cuisine, while Spanish cuisine itself has significant North African influence), Caribbean/West African, with even a little bit of French Canadian influence mixing in on Cajun food.
Merely importing ingredients is only part of it. There’s a lot to be said for techniques, tools/equipment, and traditions, too.
I was in London for a couple of days, Ate at a hotel, a couple cafes, two pubs, a chip shop with one hell of a line. I must have missed something; flavors were low-key, under-seasoned, and under-spiced. The closest thing I got to flavor was breakfast; the sausage was decent, I think you fully understand sausage there. The beans and eggs were just kinda meh.
I think things are changing. People are starting to crave a little more spice. There’s no lack of curry shops with plenty of spice, but they’re not strictly British food.
A good chippy is non-negotiable in a northern town. Dunno why but Londoners can’t even seem to get the basics like skinning and boning the fish, never mind getting the batter crispy and not wet.
We don’t all obviously spray cheese from a can, some of us are from or near Wisconsin, the place where Monroe cheese is from, which is to say very well regarded in the international community. Whatever bad things Americans did to cheese is basically either a Republican’s doing or the interests of companies like Kraft or Nabisco who are cheap and want to can a product that lasts without refrigeration. See also, Old English cheese spread.
Look I have been to Britain and the best British food I had was Indian. “Indigenous” British food is rarely anything special. It isn’t usually god awful but I’ve never had British food that made me want to eat it again
Yeah, I’m not taking the “that’s not indigenous food” from an American who im sure will unironically attempt to claim pizza and the hamburger steak as American.
Sad to hear you don’t like apple pie though. I thought you guys loved that one.
I was referring to like, shephards pie when I said indigenous but honestly I have no idea if that’s even the case. Regardless the cuisine of the colonizer is usually mid at best
I’ve never had shepherd’s pie, but I can’t imagine mutton in a pie is easy to get wrong. I eat something similar most days for breakfast. Sometimes there’s different seasoning and veggies and some organ meats added in, but it’s never bad, except for the time it was testicles.
Yeah I’ve honestly never had it be bad. My partner regularly makes a vegetarian shephard/cottage pie that I find very comforting though it doesn’t exactly conform to british standards of the dish. British food just isn’t interesting or spectacular in the way a lot of many other cuisines are. It is comforting and I can appreciate that but its doesn’t excite me.
Tbf, some people just throw mash potato over mince beef they’ve cooked with chopped tomatoes and soggy carrots. I used to think I hated it too, until I made it properly.
However, I feel thats like deciding how good American food is based on next door’s poor attempt at a dry meatloaf. We have plenty of bad cooks here who panic and make poor food that they take no time over. Maybe more than our fair share.
Also, we don’t cover up the taste of spoiling, poor quality, food by drowning it in sugar syrup and seasoning powder. That can take some time for palettes to adapt to.
Idk why you are making this a competition i don’t even like american food man. Shit’s kinda ass and I don’t eat meat or cheese so most of it is off limits.
I’ll admit i misunderstood the intent of the comment because I was at a stoplight and trying to read it quickly my fault. Regardless I was just recounting a personal experience and not making the general claim that all british food is bad all the time. I have had british food that was good even, just not good enough to surprise me and make me want to recreate it. I probably could have made that more clear but honestly I didn’t expect anyone to care
He’s british i guess.
British food is unironically great, and the stereotype is based on experiences during WW2 rationing. It’s made funnier that the people who say it comes from a country where people spray cheese from a can…
There’s so many good pies, pastries, puddings, roast dinners, breakfasts, etc that are very good. British-Indian food is often excellent. Even a basic dish like macaroni cheese can be lovely if you make it right.
To be honest unless you include northern France, I’d argue nowhere in northern Europe has better food.
I think this overstates things. A substantial number of countries have their modern culinary culture defined in the post-war decades, though.
Japanese culinary identity came together after World War II, and many of the dishes and traditions defining their cuisine are recently invented or have evolved considerably during the post-war period: the popularization and evolution of ramen, katsu, Japanese curry, yakitori, etc. Even ancient traditions like sushi and Modern Japanese food draws a lot of influence from classic pre-war cuisine, but the food itself is very different from what was eaten before the war.
Even French cuisine underwent a revolution with nouvelle cuisine, heavily influenced by Japanese kaiseki traditions. Before the 20th century, French cuisine was about heavy sauces covering rich, slow-cooked foods (see for example the duck press and how that was used), and it took a few waves of new chefs pushing back against the orthodoxy to emphasize lighter, fresher ingredients. The most notable wave happened in the 1960’s, when Paul Bocuse and others brought in small, lighter courses as the pinnacle of fine dining.
Korean, Italian (both northern and southern), and American culinary traditions changed pretty significantly in the second half of the 20th century, as well, through changes in food supply chains, political or economic changes, etc. And that’s true of a lot of places.
Britain’s inability to shake off an 80-year-old culinary reputation comes in large part from simply failing to keep up with other more food-centered cultures that continually reinvent themselves and build on that classic foundation. Some of the criticism is unfair, of course, but it’s not enough to point at how things were 100 years ago as if that has bearing on what is experienced today.
The only reason Britain still has that reputation is because Americans repeat it mindlessly in media that the whole world consumes.
Like the teeth thing. In the 2000s, the UK alongside Germany had the joint healthiest teeth in the world (although now they’ve fallen to 8th after the Scandinavian countries upped their game). Did it stop the “Brits have bad teeth” gag in US media? No.
The US, for whatever reason, has been engaged in a cultural pissing match with the UK for a long time.
I think that’s true about us missing out on those post-war culinary revolutions due to rationing still being in place for a while, and food was pretty dire still in the 70s and 80s. In the 90s celebrity chefs with TV shows really started to revitalise food culture in the UK — there’s a reason Gordon Ramsey and Jamie Oliver among others are pretty well known — but by then instead of reinventing British cuisine it became about adopting recipes from everywhere. The range of ingredients you could get in supermarkets expanded hugely and became more cosmopolitan, and now you were more likely to be entertaining guests with a tagine or churrasco than steak and kidney pie.
Full English is still better than all of that though.
That was definitely true of Japan, too, where ramen was a poverty food popularized out of necessity, that then became a foundation for innovation up the value chain.
Same with Korea, where American occupation (and a whole history of foreign conquest and occupation) made for interesting combinations of Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and American ingredients. Now Spam is probably bigger in Asia and the Pacific Islands than it ever was in America.
Same with many American food traditions being rooted in the slave trade (see West African food culture being remixed with new world ingredients and exported right back to the Americas in what would become southern U.S. and Caribbean food).
And of course there’s the broader discussion between the interplay between fine dining, casual dining, home cooking, industrial/mass production of prepared/processed foods, etc., that often creates its own foodways.
I’m biased in that I think the cultural mixing in the Americas makes for better food innovation, where so many American classics are some sort of mix of German, Italian, Mexican (which is itself a mix of indigenous and Spanish cuisine, while Spanish cuisine itself has significant North African influence), Caribbean/West African, with even a little bit of French Canadian influence mixing in on Cajun food.
Merely importing ingredients is only part of it. There’s a lot to be said for techniques, tools/equipment, and traditions, too.
I was in London for a couple of days, Ate at a hotel, a couple cafes, two pubs, a chip shop with one hell of a line. I must have missed something; flavors were low-key, under-seasoned, and under-spiced. The closest thing I got to flavor was breakfast; the sausage was decent, I think you fully understand sausage there. The beans and eggs were just kinda meh.
Then you have places like this catering to local tastes. https://www.oldelpaso.co.uk/products/extra-mild-super-tasty-fajita-kit
I think things are changing. People are starting to crave a little more spice. There’s no lack of curry shops with plenty of spice, but they’re not strictly British food.
Brits love spice. I think you just were very unlucky or choose the cheap slop.
explain the old elpaso then ;)
Cheap slop?
They test-marketed mild. It failed for being perceived as too spicy.
Chip shops in London are always shit, I’ll grant you that. It’s rare you get good fish and chips outside of seaside towns.
As for Brits not liking spice… Lmao. Brits like spice more than anywhere else in Europe, how else would Indian food be so popular there?
A good chippy is non-negotiable in a northern town. Dunno why but Londoners can’t even seem to get the basics like skinning and boning the fish, never mind getting the batter crispy and not wet.
We don’t all obviously spray cheese from a can, some of us are from or near Wisconsin, the place where Monroe cheese is from, which is to say very well regarded in the international community. Whatever bad things Americans did to cheese is basically either a Republican’s doing or the interests of companies like Kraft or Nabisco who are cheap and want to can a product that lasts without refrigeration. See also, Old English cheese spread.
A full English breakfast is one of the best meals in the world.
My wife was just telling me about unironic british abominations on tiktok
Oh wow, tiktok? Must be true.
Look I have been to Britain and the best British food I had was Indian. “Indigenous” British food is rarely anything special. It isn’t usually god awful but I’ve never had British food that made me want to eat it again
Americans always try to paint British Indian food as not being British, but they’ll happily claim Tex-Mex as American. Same goes for pizzas and such.
Funny that.
I don’t think creole cuisine necessarily belongs to either culture but I generally tend to like them 👍
Didn’t realize British indian food was particularly different from indian in general tbh
Yeah, I’m not taking the “that’s not indigenous food” from an American who im sure will unironically attempt to claim pizza and the hamburger steak as American.
Sad to hear you don’t like apple pie though. I thought you guys loved that one.
I was referring to like, shephards pie when I said indigenous but honestly I have no idea if that’s even the case. Regardless the cuisine of the colonizer is usually mid at best
I’ve never had shepherd’s pie, but I can’t imagine mutton in a pie is easy to get wrong. I eat something similar most days for breakfast. Sometimes there’s different seasoning and veggies and some organ meats added in, but it’s never bad, except for the time it was testicles.
Yeah I’ve honestly never had it be bad. My partner regularly makes a vegetarian shephard/cottage pie that I find very comforting though it doesn’t exactly conform to british standards of the dish. British food just isn’t interesting or spectacular in the way a lot of many other cuisines are. It is comforting and I can appreciate that but its doesn’t excite me.
Tbf, some people just throw mash potato over mince beef they’ve cooked with chopped tomatoes and soggy carrots. I used to think I hated it too, until I made it properly.
However, I feel thats like deciding how good American food is based on next door’s poor attempt at a dry meatloaf. We have plenty of bad cooks here who panic and make poor food that they take no time over. Maybe more than our fair share.
Also, we don’t cover up the taste of spoiling, poor quality, food by drowning it in sugar syrup and seasoning powder. That can take some time for palettes to adapt to.
Idk why you are making this a competition i don’t even like american food man. Shit’s kinda ass and I don’t eat meat or cheese so most of it is off limits.
Pointing out that I think someone is being a bit unfair and overly generalising isn’t making something a competition.
It genuinely does take time for people to adapt. That’s not point scoring.
I’ll admit i misunderstood the intent of the comment because I was at a stoplight and trying to read it quickly my fault. Regardless I was just recounting a personal experience and not making the general claim that all british food is bad all the time. I have had british food that was good even, just not good enough to surprise me and make me want to recreate it. I probably could have made that more clear but honestly I didn’t expect anyone to care
Brits: I like my food like I like my trousers. Beige and tasting of cotton.