• save_the_humans@leminal.space
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    14 hours ago

    More like every time there’s been democratically elected socialists or communists, western powers intervene with staged coups, assassinations, or embargos.

    • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
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      13 hours ago

      Even if that’s true, so what? You are just pointing out one possible reason why communism doesn’t work in reality. Still doesn’t work.

      If I say my immortal potion recipe would work in an alternate reality where humans didn’t breathe oxygen, it does not make it any more useful. Equally, in our reality, coups, assassinations and embargoes exist. If a political system can’t withstand them, it is not useful.

      • tomi000@lemmy.world
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        12 hours ago

        This is like saying the idea of solar panels is bad because capitalists work against them to destroy their reputation. Judging a system based on the assumption that theres someone else trying to destroy it is very simple minded.

        • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
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          12 hours ago

          A political and economic system is not some random piece of infrastructure, like a solar panel. It’s more comparable to a padlock. It’s entire point is to manage human nature. If all people were benevolent and willing to work for collective good on their own, we wouldn’t need political systems at all. Neither would we need padlocks. A padlock that can’t hinder an intruder is a bad padlock. A political or economic system that can’t handle human nature (greed, lust for power) is a bad system.

          • tomi000@lemmy.world
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            3 hours ago

            A political and economic system is not some random piece of infrastructure, like a solar panel.

            And its also not a magic potion.

            A padlock that can’t hinder an intruder is a bad padlock.

            A political and economic system is not some random piece of infrastructure object, like a solar panel padlock.

            Youre saying a political system can only work if there is not a single aspect that can be taken advantage of? Thats equivalent to every single person being controlled 100% in their actions. If thats your idea of ideal, sure. I guess some people currently being in leading positions would agree with you.

            The US is currently in the middle of a fascist takeover, while being a Democracy (in the past at least). Are you saying Democracy is not a political system worth pursuing because it doesnt work?

            • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
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              3 hours ago

              Youre saying a political system can only work if there is not a single aspect that can be taken advantage of? Thats equivalent to every single person being controlled 100% in their actions.

              I did not say anything even close to that. I am saying a political system can only work if it can’t be easily overturned. It has nothing to do with how much it controls peoples lives or if it can be taken advantage of.

              • tomi000@lemmy.world
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                2 hours ago

                So just to be clear, there doesnt currently exist a political system that works, as they all have been overturned multiple times?

                • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
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                  52 minutes ago

                  What is this bullshit argument? If a lightbulb stops working after 10 years, is it as useless as a lightbulb that breaks after 10 minutes?

                  can’t be easily overturned

                  Did I write they have to be impossible to overturn? Why don’t you read what I write more carefully instead of reacting to some made up version of my comment.

      • mang0@lemmy.zip
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        12 hours ago

        In many of these cases, the political system which couldn’t withstand coups were democracies. Does this mean that democracy isn’t useful? Are you saying that democracies should forbid socialists from being elected since if they get elected then america will intervene and the democracy will cease to be useful? Sounds like you don’t care for democracy and self-determination of nations. Bonus points will be awarded for being able to make your point without a potion metaphor.

        • DreamlandLividity@lemmy.world
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          12 hours ago

          My entire point is that political systems like democracies are not isolated from economic systems. Democracies fail when combined with communism, because all power is concentrated in the political apparatus, leaving no leverage for the rest of the population. Then, seizing power and removing democracy is too easy.