ICE is using facial recognition tech on US citizens without their consent, according to DHS documents obtained by 404 Media. Despite such software's unreliability, agents may ignore a citizen's birth certificate if the app says they're in the US illegally.
Eh, I’m fine with them wearing masks. I’m not fine with them breaking the law and not being accountable. If they wear masks (or even if they don’t), they need to be ready to show ID and recite their badge number.
No, they are law enforcement and should be readily identifiable the community they serve. Including their face. Also being masked makes it harder for the people they’re interacting with to understand what they’re saying. They lose all the non-verbal communication that comes from the face. Them being masked has absolutely zero upside to the public.
I don’t think this is necessary. What does seeing an officer’s face do that a name and badge number doesn’t? What about undercover cops? What about the winter when it’s cold?
I think it should only be required that they declare on what authority they’re acting when making official actions, like a stop, detainment, or arrest. They should give their name and badge number upon request, in a form that works for the asker (written or verbal, asker’s preference).
If we ban law enforcement from wearing masks, that opens the door to banning masks in public. I get that police should follow higher standards (I’m absolutely in favor of ending qualified immunity), but IMO the rules should merely be that police must self identify in a way the public knows they’re legitimate law enforcement when using the authority of their position.
Witnesses who are too far away to see their identification can still see their face to ID them. Undercover cops are a different situation than what ICE is doing and really shouldn’t be making arrests IMO. In winter they can take their mask off to interact with people.
If we ban law enforcement from wearing masks, that opens the door to banning masks in public.
It doesn’t. The general public doesn’t need to be identifiable at all times like cops do.
Witnesses who are too far away to see their identification can still see their face to ID them.
Sure, I just don’t think that’s a reasonable thing to require at all times.
Instead, the public should be free to approach to a safe distance to film, and then attempt to talk with law enforcement when safe. A police officer is required to identify themselves to the suspect due to the fourth amendment. Whether they are required to identify themselves to the public is up to local law, court precedent, and agency policy.
The general public doesn’t need to be identifiable at all times like cops do.
Neither do. Police only need to be identifiable when using their authority, such as when making an arrest or dealing with protests, and in the latter case, only agency affiliation is necessary.
Every officer has a badge number that uniquely identifies then, and they are legally required to provide that information. When filing a complaint or a lawsuit, you’ll provide their name and badge number. If they refuse, you provide as much information as you can (area, time of day, type of vehicle, vehicle number, other officers and badge numbers involved, etc) so they can track the officer down.
I don’t know how ICE works specifically, but many police departments require their officers to carry business cards with that information and hand them out upon request.
Civilians have a right to verify that the people involved are actually officers and have a right to identify individual offices to report misconduct.
I don’t care if officers wear masks, I only care that they can be uniquely identified.
Yes I have. There are only videos of people asking for badge numbers without getting a response. There are none where a badge number is given.
My point was that we need to see their faces because they will not identify themselves. Thats a big problem if we ever pull ourselves out of this; they will attempt to rejoin society like nothing happdened after illegally brutalizing american citizens. We need to know who the traitors are.
There are only videos of people asking for badge numbers without getting a response.
Are these suspects or protestors? Because the videos I’ve seen are protestors. Police must reveal their identity to suspects due to the fourth amendment, but not to the general public.
My point is suspects have a right to know who their accusers are. Whether they share that with others (and they should) is up to them. Having the public know their identities just opens them up to vigilante justice, having suspect know their identities keeps them accountable to the rule of law.
But if you’re “arresting” a protester haven’t they become a defacto suspect?
Yes, if you’re detained or arrested, you have the right to know the name and badge number of the person detaining or arresting you.
The videos I’ve seen aren’t that, they’re merely protesters asking on behalf of someone else. If there is a video where it’s clear that someone being detained or arrested by police isn’t given that information, then I’d be very interested because that would be a pretty clear-cut 4th amendment violation.
Eh, I’m fine with them wearing masks. I’m not fine with them breaking the law and not being accountable. If they wear masks (or even if they don’t), they need to be ready to show ID and recite their badge number.
No, they are law enforcement and should be readily identifiable the community they serve. Including their face. Also being masked makes it harder for the people they’re interacting with to understand what they’re saying. They lose all the non-verbal communication that comes from the face. Them being masked has absolutely zero upside to the public.
I don’t think this is necessary. What does seeing an officer’s face do that a name and badge number doesn’t? What about undercover cops? What about the winter when it’s cold?
I think it should only be required that they declare on what authority they’re acting when making official actions, like a stop, detainment, or arrest. They should give their name and badge number upon request, in a form that works for the asker (written or verbal, asker’s preference).
If we ban law enforcement from wearing masks, that opens the door to banning masks in public. I get that police should follow higher standards (I’m absolutely in favor of ending qualified immunity), but IMO the rules should merely be that police must self identify in a way the public knows they’re legitimate law enforcement when using the authority of their position.
Witnesses who are too far away to see their identification can still see their face to ID them. Undercover cops are a different situation than what ICE is doing and really shouldn’t be making arrests IMO. In winter they can take their mask off to interact with people.
It doesn’t. The general public doesn’t need to be identifiable at all times like cops do.
Sure, I just don’t think that’s a reasonable thing to require at all times.
Instead, the public should be free to approach to a safe distance to film, and then attempt to talk with law enforcement when safe. A police officer is required to identify themselves to the suspect due to the fourth amendment. Whether they are required to identify themselves to the public is up to local law, court precedent, and agency policy.
Neither do. Police only need to be identifiable when using their authority, such as when making an arrest or dealing with protests, and in the latter case, only agency affiliation is necessary.
What badge number? They won’t do that. They need demasking.
Every officer has a badge number that uniquely identifies then, and they are legally required to provide that information. When filing a complaint or a lawsuit, you’ll provide their name and badge number. If they refuse, you provide as much information as you can (area, time of day, type of vehicle, vehicle number, other officers and badge numbers involved, etc) so they can track the officer down.
I don’t know how ICE works specifically, but many police departments require their officers to carry business cards with that information and hand them out upon request.
Civilians have a right to verify that the people involved are actually officers and have a right to identify individual offices to report misconduct.
I don’t care if officers wear masks, I only care that they can be uniquely identified.
Have you ever seen an example of an ICE agent sharing a badge number on video from this year?
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Have you seen an instance where a citizen or legal immigrant calmly asked for name and badge number and was refused?
Yes I have. There are only videos of people asking for badge numbers without getting a response. There are none where a badge number is given.
My point was that we need to see their faces because they will not identify themselves. Thats a big problem if we ever pull ourselves out of this; they will attempt to rejoin society like nothing happdened after illegally brutalizing american citizens. We need to know who the traitors are.
Are these suspects or protestors? Because the videos I’ve seen are protestors. Police must reveal their identity to suspects due to the fourth amendment, but not to the general public.
My point is suspects have a right to know who their accusers are. Whether they share that with others (and they should) is up to them. Having the public know their identities just opens them up to vigilante justice, having suspect know their identities keeps them accountable to the rule of law.
Both. But if you’re “arresting” a protester haven’t they become a defacto suspect? Or are they arresting protesters for other reasons?
All other law enforcment in america is maskless. Why would ICE need special protections from vigilate justice?
Yes, if you’re detained or arrested, you have the right to know the name and badge number of the person detaining or arresting you.
The videos I’ve seen aren’t that, they’re merely protesters asking on behalf of someone else. If there is a video where it’s clear that someone being detained or arrested by police isn’t given that information, then I’d be very interested because that would be a pretty clear-cut 4th amendment violation.
SWAT wears masks.