No disagreement, but there is implications & framing towards China’s model all over this thread.

Worshiping any nation is dumb—especially both the US & China. If not captalism then communism cuts out all other political ideologies; either/oring is fallacious & too simplistic.

Funny as search doesn’t work on MS GitHub without auth. If you post your library on a language’s forum, a personal blog post, & some other place, the search engines (or ugh LLMs with Exa search) can find the. There are decentralized forge options like Radicle, or at least a nonprofit-owned. But all snapshot-based VCSs will have the limitation of needing some centralized source of truth in most cases since the model makes a conflict out of patches being pulled in out of order (which the patch theory-based stuff covers).

But we can all still watch the wording aspect so folks feel free to not do dumb things like assume code = Git = MS GitHub.

Nah, it’s futuristic Microslop now

You gotta stop equating Microslop-owned GitHub with code forges/repositories. The first step is change language to be inclusive to other platfrom while not specially mentioning the proprietary, megacorporate option—such as saint code forge or VCS host. The second step is to create an account elsewhere as you primary spot. Our framing of these things matter, & if you don’t like the state imposing its will on you, the corporate option here is more or less an extension of the state (contributors in Yemen for example will be blocked under US sanctions, bug reporters will be required to agree to the ToS & data collection machine of Microsoft, if the capitalist class doesn’t like your project they will have it removed like Yuzu & yt-download while they will allow state-sponsor gangs like ICE to remain on the platform). Break out of “the network effect”.

KDL is the future. It reads nice & is compatible with both JSON & XML

Being able to have a decentralized form to accept patches is key to keeping the D in DVCS (distributed version control system). Pijul you can omit the email & even name if you want to be anonymous, or your key servers could offer better forms of communication.

I totally disagree with letting Microsoft GitHub be a sink for email. Not only is it US-based, publicly-traded with shareholders to appease, & fully proprietary… but they are also a major data siphon with Copilot™ products trained on then sold back from code & conversation in what should The Commons which probably include these no replies. We are also talking about a massively centralizing platform saying omitting your email is fine since you can direct your contributors to use their closed, proprietary platform—something anyone with any sympathy for free software ethos or even basic privacy for contributors would never demand, endorse, or encourage the usage of MS GitHub in any form.

Pijul decouples your identity from you commits & proves your SSH key ownership. It is a beautiful thing that you can change your name or email & not have to get a force push to update all that info since you are now just identified by the primary key from the identity server. No more worries about being embarrassed by your old Protonmail or GMail account,no more dead names in the commit history, & no care about identity stealing by just changing the config.

A lot of the world can’t just drink tap water with a basic filter

A *lot

K. Have fun doing nothing & sticking to your shitty networks that give you no control or freedom—as opposed to trying literally anything to change the situation.

So you are saying we should all use Reddit, Discord, Meta WhatsApp, & Microsoft GitHub since more folks are there? The only way to buck those trends is to be the change you want to see & slowly move what groups you can away. You don’t have to get everything to buy in at once & there are mirrors / gateways that you can use as a transition. Make a clan homepage & say the VoIP is here & the chat is there… now you aren’t beholden to one specific tool going to shit or waiting 10 years for something to have literally every feature you want. If 2 applications is a barrier, maybe that someone isn’t the right fit for your group anyhow.

For the chat part: IRCv3, XMPP, Jami, maybe SimpleX.

As it stands for VoIP: Mumble, Jitsi (XMPP), Jami, maybe Movim (XMPP) in the near-ish future.

IRC & Mumble is centralized but super lightweight so you can spin up a server on any old hardware & can be fine for ‘clans’. Clients are efficient too. They aren’t encrypted other than TLS but are good enough for its largely-room-based goals.

XMPP is a generalized, decentralized protocol for presence & messaging. It has multiple FOSS servers that require a potato for hardware that you can spin up in a bedroom to join other bedroom servers where you can control your own data (same as Matrix, but a lot less resources & more mature). Chat can be encrypted (most clients support PGP & OMEMO). Some clients can do voice/video calls, many are working on multi-user call at present. It is the protocol behind WhatsApps, Zoom, Fortnite, League of Legends, & more.

Jami is P2P IIRC, but I haven’t used it—so I won’t comment.

But you can use a chat service for chat & a VoIP service for VoIP & that can be fine. A kitchen sink isn’t always the best approach.

But if you are looking to keep tabs on something, Movim is very much focused on multi-user jingle & is something you could deploy & have decentralized users join from their own servers.

Bad idea. Matrix is incredibly costly to run by design. The eventual consistency model replicates everything to all servers which is wasteful, slow, & isn’t going to scale. Many medium-sized servers have shut down for storage & CPU+RAM costs—which causes refugees to seek more centralized nodes. Hell, we saw it a couple weeks ago Matrix begging for money since they can’t even afford to run their own servers anymore. You should put your money into a protocol that doesn’t treat chat like a blockchain & is efficient enough to reasonably self-host.

Doesn’t have a cup holder either! Why does ever alternative need to have every feature or it can’t be called an alternative? Does your VoIP app need the ability to send videos? Can you not use something else in tandem to do the more social side? Sometimes it’s better to focus on one thing & do it well—especially under-resourced like free software often is. You could argue just as easily these other features as bloat if you don’t want or use them.

They still require accounts with US-based megacorporation (with obligations to say, ban access to Syrians civilians due to sanctions). If your project can do better, it should.

That suuuuuuuuuucks

How did Cloudflare get involved on this setup?

Soon I am hoping to migrate from Nginx to H2O